Brokers share their stories at MFAA DEI summit

The Australian mortgage and finance industry has come a long way when it comes to acknowledging the need for greater diversity and actively promoting it but there’s still much to be done.

That was one of the key messages emanating from the MFAA’s inaugural Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Summit held  at The Eveleigh by the Grounds in Sydney on Tuesday.

Hosted by TV journalist and author Mimi Kwa, the invite-only DEI summit brought together almost 70 key industry figures representing aggregators and lenders, as well as a number of high-profile mortgage brokers.

Kwa, whose father is Chinese and mother is Australian, shared her experiences growing up in Perth in the 1970s as one of the only Asian children in her school and then the barriers she overcame working in the world of television news.

MFAA CEO Anja Pannek also spoke about embarking on a journey to create a “true industry of choice and inclusion”, while Ashley Fell, social researcher and director of communications at McCrindle Research discussed the business case for diversity and equity.

Providing an industry perspective, panellists Wendy Brown, head of broker sales at Macquarie Bank, CommBank general manager third party banking Razia Khan, and Mortgage Choice CEO Anthony Waldron shared with Kwa what they as individuals and their organisations were doing to enhance diversity, equity and inclusion among their staff and customers.

For the broker perspectives panel, Kwa was joined by Resolve Finance Derrimut franchisee Niti Bhargava (pictured above left), Premier Financial Advocates founder Sadish Visvalingam (pictured above, second from left), MTA Mortgage Brokers director Kerry Kalendra (pictured above, second from right), and Mortgage Choice Marrickville owner Chantelle Rangel (pictured above right).

Thrive4women co-founder Jane Counsel also presented the results of the MFAA’s DEI survey and the summit attendees formed breakout groups to discuss ways to boost diversity, equity and inclusion in the industry

Brokers discuss their career journeys

Sadish Visvalingam

Starting the panel discussion with Visvalingam, Kwa asked about his brokerage’s unique team structure with a number of different cultures represented, especially how he grew the team – was it through decisive action or did it happen organically?

Visvalingam, who is of Sri Lankan heritage, said it was an organic process.

“When we start recruiting or building our team we work with one model,” said Visvalingam. “You always want to place the right person for the right job.

“But what we do a little bit differently is we actively seek candidates outside our full service. This has given me the opportunity to recruit individuals from different nationalities and cultures.”

The brokerage team included staff from Sri Lankan, Indian, Nepali and Chinese backgrounds.

“I’ve got five cultures, 14 team members and a perfect split between the genders as well,” Visvalingam said.

Kwa asked how such an array of diversity, talent and skills impacted the business, especially the bottom line.

Visvalingam said diversity brought new ideas and as a leader it was his responsibility to feel empowered by this and put it into action.

“I feel this is a strength because now my team [is] facilitating loans to the Nepali community, which hadn’t happened before. That’s a big win for us.

“I think the key here is we need to encourage our team members to go out there, talk to their communities and see what they can do.”

Kwa asked if he had felt any challenges or impacts as a broker because of his cultural background.

Visvalingam said: “Not really, I try not to think that because that’s thinking myself into a restriction. I try not to think that my cultural background, or the colour of my skin has anything to do with what I do. I'm the right person for the job, I deserve that.”

Chantelle Rangel

Kwa asked Rangel where she saw the opportunity to pursue a career in mortgage broking, given that it was not a traditional domain for women, particularly women of colour.

Rangel said she “fell into mortgage broking” after completing a degree in economics and corporate software sales career.

“I was a massive workaholic – work was life, until I had two young kids,” Rangel said. “I wanted to take a little bit of a career break and spend some time with them. So I was fortunate enough to be able to do that.”

“My dad [Bob Rangel] at the time had been a Mortgage Choice franchise for about 20 years – it turned out I was his succession plan, unbeknownst to me.

“He said, ‘Look, it will be a good gig for you, it's scalable, it’s really flexible, why don’t you try your hand at it?’

“I didn't realise at the time how lucky I was to have that opportunity because I didn't see myself in the broking industry for too long. I couldn't see success the same way. It didn't connect with my values at the time.

“But now I'm in such a different place and I love where I'm at. I’ve built the business around my lifestyle and what's really important to me. I'm just so excited about the future.”

Kwa asked what challenges Rangel faced as a broker in terms of client or industry judgement.

Rangel said there were a lot of challenges when she initially became a broker.

“The financial services space was brand new to me,” she said. “While the Cert IV and diploma covered  basic compliance and foundations, it missed a lot of what you need to know on the job workshopping, working a loan with BDMs.”

Rangel said while she had a great mentor, they were running their own business and didn’t always have the “bandwidth to spend time with you and teach you everything you need to know”.

“Education was a big gap or challenge for me. I was battling with imposter syndrome. You’re dealing with people's livelihoods here, so you really can't make a mistake, and that's really daunting. People are going to lose their savings if you do make a mistake, so that was very scary.”

Rangel recalled an experience she had at one of her first client meetings as a broker, which was also attended by her father.

“I was running the meeting but the client just kept addressing everything to my dad. I was just sort of the assistant sitting there, was not privy to all the information and he was little a bit rude to me at first,” she said.

“When we left, I burst into tears and dad said, ‘How did you let him speak to you like that?’  I think that was the pivotal moment where he said ‘You just have to stand up for yourself, no-one’s allowed to talk to you like that – you have to own it, you know all of this stuff’.”

Niti Bhargava

Kwa said recent MFAA surveys showed that 50% of brokers feel the industry is inclusive, and 50% do not, asking Bhargava where she sat in the survey.

Bhargava, who migrated to Australia from India 20 years ago, said she started her career in Australia in banking working for CBA.

She said Commonwealth Bank had great policies and programs such as 18 months’ maternity leave, change champions and diversity champions. “I am a product of all these things.”

Bhargava said she worked in banking for 15 years in various roles and when she started in the mortgage broking industry, she was told by a broker friend of her husband’s that the job wouldn’t be interesting to her.

“He said, ‘You have to go to people’s places all the time to get mortgage documents signed – most of all you’re very soft as a personality and people are going to crush you.’ Those were the exact words. Seventeen years later here I am – still standing strong.”

Kwa said when the people closest to you were not supportive, it can be hard to overcome.

“I have heard all sorts of criticisms – like your accent is different, your dress sense is different,” Bhargava said. “I am actually three times masters [degree], I am a qualified accountant, I’m an IPA, even though people were not trusting my abilities, I had to prove myself over and over again.”

To Bhargava, inclusion meant not waiting for others to “include you at the table”.

“You have to make your own table and make yourself inclusive.”

Kerry Kalendra

Kwa asked Kalendra about his career journey.

Kalendra said he became a broker back in 2002 and he had seen a lot of changes from the days when it was all about “men in blue jackets”.

“I’ve gone through a period of growth. About six years ago I got to a period where I burnt out – I had enough of the industry, I just really wanted to get out … the toxicity, narcissism and racism was so evident that I couldn’t stay any longer,” Kalendra said.

“That was the driving force that not only drove me to the diversity, equity and inclusion piece that is now part of our business, but it gave me the drive to just go and put the foot on the accelerator and smash it out again for the second time.

Kalendra said when you had been working in an industry for so long “you need to change – what I didn’t realise was that I didn’t need to get out of mortgage broking, I just needed to change what I was doing in mortgage broking”.

“The epiphany came for me that it was time for me to bring on other people within the business and nurture and help them grow.”

The MTA Mortgage Brokers team had grown organically and all of them apart from Kalendra were born outside Australia.

“We have a team of Indian, Macedonian, Iranian, Greek, and Lithuanian descent,” Kalendra said.

The MFAA Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Summit 2024 was supported by major partner Commonwealth Bank, gold partner Mortgage Choice and event supporters, ANZ and Westpac

What steps can the industry take to encourage more people of diverse backgrounds to become mortgage brokers? Comment below